Jim Stillman
Nevar
Enough about the President's religion
June 3rd 2009 14:15
I really am not certain of the significance of the far Right’s, Fox’s and a few others’ fixation on the President’s faith. Normally, we take a person’s word on the specific Deity to whom one chooses to pray or even the absence of such a Deity.
Certainly, many of President Obama’s critics, including those at this site who cannot even bear to write his name (now, that’s hatred!) claim to be members of the Clergy and Christian; I take them at their word. If the President says that he is a Christian that ends the irrelevant question. This does not mean that I agree with all of the tenets of that faith, and I do not. But the issue of his being Christian is settled.
But the question itself is offensive and actually dismissed in the Constitution which flatly forbids any religious qualifications for office. Why is it that some on the Right think so highly of the Constitution – sometimes.
The President asserts that he is Christian, not Muslim. The statements to the contrary have been researched and repudiated over and over again. If anyone can cite primary evidence otherwise, state it.
If, arguendo, he were Muslim, so what? Does belief in Islam equal terrorist about to attack America? Does every, or even a majority of the 1.8 Billion Muslims, wish to engage in jihad? Are they all out to get us?
Or are some of us allowing fear to control our lives?
And if the fear takes over reason, the bad few will have succeeded beyond their wildest and craziest dreams.
Certainly, many of President Obama’s critics, including those at this site who cannot even bear to write his name (now, that’s hatred!) claim to be members of the Clergy and Christian; I take them at their word. If the President says that he is a Christian that ends the irrelevant question. This does not mean that I agree with all of the tenets of that faith, and I do not. But the issue of his being Christian is settled.
But the question itself is offensive and actually dismissed in the Constitution which flatly forbids any religious qualifications for office. Why is it that some on the Right think so highly of the Constitution – sometimes.
The President asserts that he is Christian, not Muslim. The statements to the contrary have been researched and repudiated over and over again. If anyone can cite primary evidence otherwise, state it.
If, arguendo, he were Muslim, so what? Does belief in Islam equal terrorist about to attack America? Does every, or even a majority of the 1.8 Billion Muslims, wish to engage in jihad? Are they all out to get us?
Or are some of us allowing fear to control our lives?
And if the fear takes over reason, the bad few will have succeeded beyond their wildest and craziest dreams.
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Comment by Lester Caudill
Round Politics
I don't hate Obama or B.O. or however I decide to write his name, I hate what he stands for, which is the destruction of America, and what it stood for. During the campaign Obama used the words remake, transforming, not rebuilding, or restoring America, now you see what we have become a socialist nation with no core beliefs, and he did in hundred days.
I have friends and neighbors that can't find a job, what happened to the promise of three to four million new jobs where are they, we are deeper in debt than we have ever been with no way out, we are owned by China we have become slaves to the Government.
Jim you are a educated man can't you see what's going on, come on man just admit you were wrong. Faith does matter, and it not hate if we don't agree with everything he is doing, but rather love for our country and country men and women that are trying to make this country great for their families.
Now they have one huge extra obstacle to over come as if it wasn't hard enough before, now they got big brother stealing more from and giving the less. You talk about Fox, can't you see how the MSM are just cheerleaders for the democratic party.
What about the Muslim that killed one and wounded another soldier in Arkansas it was politically, and religion motivated? The main stream liberal media is keep a lid on it aren't they. While trying to blame conservative Christians for the murder of the baby killing Dr. Tiller.
If we seem upset well we have a right to be, but freedom of speech only applies to democrats, and liberals republicans must hold their peace, and follow blindly till we fall over the cliff.
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
When I see him politicizing his faith to meet the needs of the moment, I am appalled and left doubt filled.
He is disingenuous about matters of faith, and that calls into question his ability to govern openly or truthfully.
He isn't trustworthy. When convenient, he turns against the US and sides with our enemies publically; that is reprehensible as far as I am concerned.
Comment by Anonymous
Yay for freddom of speech!
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
Comment by DeAnne
Public Journalist
Simple Gift Guide
Home Cooking on Recipeyz
Work From Home Online
Every Day Is A Food Holiday
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
Seriously, DeAnne, one of the more bothersome of the comments of the Far Far Right has been the constant use of the verb, “hate” and other personal pejoratives. One may disagree with a political, societal, ethical decision, but to hate the person with whom you disagree seems to be contrary to the tenets of the Christian faith. Certainly, Jesus did not advocate such an emotion.
We can discuss the merits or flaws in the President’s direction, position, values, and a plethora of issues; don’t waste time stating that he is a Muslim traitor with a specific intent to destroy the United States. Say that he is saying things with which you may disagree; don’t get nutty and accuse him of lying.
All I have been trying to do is bring civility into the discussions.
Many of the far right bloggers on this and other sites are incapable of this. They cheapen their arguments with silly names [B.O. (B.S.)] or such then innocently look at the sky and declare, “Huh?” Someone please buy them a Thesaurus
This has all been a digression. My point was to thank you for a well-expressed comment. That we agree is, to me, frosting on the cake.
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Comment by Nevar
Is Why
How many radical christian armed jihadi's are engaged with shooting, bombing and terrorizing innocents?
Jim, history will prove out one way or the other whether or not Obama's an able leader; I say not.
Comment by Jeff Musall
As for the religion of the president, it is truly a shame that any president must bow at the feet of christian dogma...I wish Lester were right, and Obama was Atheist. Any president should be free to have any religion, but should never be allowed to allow it to guide their governance..
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
We were, remember the war for Independence, the original tea party and things? We won.
Jews, Christians, Catholics and atheists won that little fracas. There wasn't a muslim in the bunch as far as I know.
As far as environments go, radical islam destroyed the advanced society that was once Islam. Not christians, not the jews, not catholics, atheists under islam would have been 2nd class citizens but they didn't destroy that society, but islamic extremists did.
A man without faith should never be allowed to govern this country; a man or woman without faith is delusional or a liar.
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
But, as I have tried to explain, one can have his or her own opinions, but not his or her facts.
One cannot start off with the statement that President Obama is a Muslim (he says he isn't), then go on to Muslims want to destroy America (all of them? Most of them?) a fairly large stretch and then conclude the President wants to destroy America.
Another example, one blogger on Orble excuses the killer of Dr. Tiller in Kansas, with the suggestion that, maybe, he has a granddaughter whohade a late term abortion and has been traumatized. If one wants to justify or explain the killing, that's fine but you cannot invent grandchildren!
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
One cannot start off with the statement that President Obama is a Muslim (he says he isn't), then go on to Muslims want to destroy America (all of them? Most of them?) a fairly large stretch and then conclude the President wants to destroy America.
Jim, Obama is going around to muslim countries playing his muslim roots card and declaring that the US isn't a christian country . . .
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff
He is kissing Muslim butt because the Democrats are trying a be nice to them and they will be nice to us tact. I don’t think it will work but they figure it’s worth a shot. Due to how and where he was raised he is also probably bigoted against Israel. How much that will affect how he does his job only time will tell.
I have been calling him a Socialist for quite some time but am starting to doubt that. He loves big business too much, even though it’s the ones that put him in office that he favors. He is even starting to remind me of George Bush in some ways. Love of the big oil countries and keeping two wars going. I predict it will be a Republican President who ends the war in Iraq, probably Palin. (yes I put that name in to see if anyone is even reading this)
I honestly don’t hate President Obama, but I do hate what he is doing to this country. He is selling the future of our kids to the Unions and HIS big business cronies.
Comment by Jeff Musall
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
To my fellow Orbler, Nevar, the President has never said the U.S. is not a Christian country, what he did say was
I agree with that completely. We are not a theocracy – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Druid.
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
Your hubris has exceeded your mental capacity ~ America is a Republic and was founded as such for a reason. Liberalism is steering us into the folds of socialism; liberalism has oft been described as a mental disorder and you tend to lend that theory substance. Obama has harmed this country in ways you can't imagine and choose to ignore when it slaps you in the face. Even the Russians are amazed at our march into socialism and view the situation with bemusement; don't those American's know it's a failed system.
I doubt that you can recognize the roots of my faith were it to bite you in the bum. Obama needs a modicum of real faith and substantive plans for this country. Obama is like a street hustler, he'll say anything to close a deal and his mack daddy posturing is annoyingly familiar to any hooker on the street.
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
You are correct, this country was never meant to be theocratic. Nor was it meant to be a kingdom or any other form of government other than a democratic Republic.
When our political spokesmen have described it addressing world leaders, it was described a democratic republic whose legal compass and constitution were based upon Judeo - Christian principles, not those of nature worshipers, animists, not Islamic, not Druidism, and even the atheists among the group chose to adopt a moral compass they knew would help avoid moral anarchy.
To say that we are a largely Christian country is historically accurate.
Comment by Jeff Musall
Nevar, your racist comment about Obama does little except to further marginalize your side.
Randy, as an agonstic you, and others like you, puzzle me....what draws you to someone like Palin?
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
To continue, Jim, those ideals and values referred to by Obama weren't based upon secular humanity, those ideals were under pinned with Judeo ~ Christian based principles.
Comment by Nevar
Is Why
Two things:
1 ~ She is more woman than you'll ever have,
2 ~ She is more of a man than you'll ever be.
Acorn started out standing for something, but has devolved. Morphing into something vile. You haven't researched it have you? You haven't bothered to look past the boundaries of the bubble you live in to examine for yourself what the truth is and that is glaringly obvious.
Jeff, in the future, please don't enter into a debate unarmed, thank you.
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff
I can look beyond Palin’s religion for several reasons. The first is that a persons religion is not all of what they are, or with most anyway. And I said Agnostic not Atheist, I do attend church from time to time and enjoy it. If somebody gave me a feasible answer to why I should believe in God (proof he is there) other than “Have faith” I would embrace religion. Also Christian values are more along the lines of how I believe than the far left’s values.
I have three political issues that I am adamant about, the rest do not matter to me as much. I am for free speech, the right to bear arms and lower taxes means more jobs and a better economy. Palin is satisfactory to me on those three main issues
Comment by Jeff Musall
I wouldn't be so concerned about religion if it wasn't for the fact that there is a strong difference from the casual/social church goer and/or believer, and the holy roller type that infuses their belief system into everything, and Palin fits that to a tee...also, I would challenge your pretense about the "liberal media" just because not every network reports like fox does doesn't make them biased. If anything I would say the media is conservative, but that's just me (and stats, but hey)
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff