Jim Stillman
Nevar
Pro-life hate speech has consequences
June 7th 2009 18:06
Within the past weeks, two murders took place. In Little Rock, Arkansas, William Long was killed outside of an Army recruiting office, allegedly by an American convert to Islam, 23 year old Abdulhakim Muhammad. Mr. Muhammad reportedly said that the shooting was a general and vague “war protest” and police initially have reported that the shooter had acted alone.
While it may end up otherwise, the killing of Private Long does not appear to be part of a group religious conspiracy but rather the act of a deranged criminal. Nonetheless, the killing was inexcusable and the murderer needs to be punished in accordance with the law.
On May 31st, while standing in the foyer of his Wichita church, serving as an usher and distributing bulletins, Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder an unstable drifter who found a home on the extremist right, joining a militia group that refused to pay taxes and allegedly posting comments on antiabortion websites likening Dr. Tiller to the infamous Nazi Josef Mengele.
Immediately the far Right complained that media coverage of Dr. Tiller’s murder was far more extensive than that of Private Long, thus equating the two. I do not dispute the different amounts of coverage but the murder of Dr. Tiller seems more newsworthy.
The killing of the soldier in Little Rock was a criminal act supported by no political group in this country; it was inexcusable and, as far as I am aware, no one has posed any conceivable excuse or politically based defense. On the other hand, many on the right have stretched facts in order to provide some justification for Mr. Roeder.
Most disturbing is that for years religious leaders, many in the media and. influential members of the anti-abortion have set the stage for violence.
To their credit, some of these same religious leaders have acknowledged the responsibility they bear, the harm that comes from referring to opponents in pejorative terms and how that kind of talk is not only counter-productive but can incite violence by the weak and unsophisticated. Others still deny the repeated calls to violence, calls to which Mr. Roeder responded. The efforts some on the far Right is illustrated by the following excerpt of a comment on these pages where motives are discussed:
Notice, if you will, the killing of Dr. Tiller is probably wrong, but. . . he may have had a granddaughter, his hypothetical granddaughter may have become pregnant, that hypothetical granddaughter who may have become pregnant may have had a late-term abortion, she may have traveled to Wichita, she may have voluntarily gone to Dr. Tiller’s clinic where the doctor may have legally performed a legal procedure. So it’s possibly excusable to kill Dr. Tiller. There is always, “but”.
There is a fiction going around that the pro-choice and anti-abortion-at-all-costs groups are two equally extreme positions, and that rational answers exist in the middle, where everybody disapproves of abortion except when they want one for themselves or someone they care about.
There's only one set of extremists here, the one that uses language like "baby killer," " Nazi," "murderer," and "death mill," kidnaps and murders providers and clinic workers, burns and bombs clinics and drives cars into them, posts pictures of clinic workers and their families on the internet, and harasses patients on their way to get care.
Bret McAtee, a well known and popular Michigan pastor made a statement regarding Dr. Tiller’s murder:
To their credit, some religious leaders and people strongly opposed to the work if George Tiller (which after all was legal and sanctioned by Kansas law) have acknowledged that hate speech is inexcusable. Frank Schaeffer, a long time evangelical on the Right, along with his late father, assumes responsibility and guilt:
And so am I.
While it may end up otherwise, the killing of Private Long does not appear to be part of a group religious conspiracy but rather the act of a deranged criminal. Nonetheless, the killing was inexcusable and the murderer needs to be punished in accordance with the law.
On May 31st, while standing in the foyer of his Wichita church, serving as an usher and distributing bulletins, Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder an unstable drifter who found a home on the extremist right, joining a militia group that refused to pay taxes and allegedly posting comments on antiabortion websites likening Dr. Tiller to the infamous Nazi Josef Mengele.
Immediately the far Right complained that media coverage of Dr. Tiller’s murder was far more extensive than that of Private Long, thus equating the two. I do not dispute the different amounts of coverage but the murder of Dr. Tiller seems more newsworthy.
The killing of the soldier in Little Rock was a criminal act supported by no political group in this country; it was inexcusable and, as far as I am aware, no one has posed any conceivable excuse or politically based defense. On the other hand, many on the right have stretched facts in order to provide some justification for Mr. Roeder.
Most disturbing is that for years religious leaders, many in the media and. influential members of the anti-abortion have set the stage for violence.
To their credit, some of these same religious leaders have acknowledged the responsibility they bear, the harm that comes from referring to opponents in pejorative terms and how that kind of talk is not only counter-productive but can incite violence by the weak and unsophisticated. Others still deny the repeated calls to violence, calls to which Mr. Roeder responded. The efforts some on the far Right is illustrated by the following excerpt of a comment on these pages where motives are discussed:
Tiller was a Baby Killer, Jim. He murdered over 60,000 babies that could have survived outside the mother. He was a monster. There is no excuse for what he did.
That being said, the man who shot him may have had motives that we don't yet know. Perhaps Tiller murdered his grandchild or perhaps his granddaughter lost her mind after Tiller killed her baby. Until we know the motivations, I'm willing to wait to condemn the shooter.
That being said, the man who shot him may have had motives that we don't yet know. Perhaps Tiller murdered his grandchild or perhaps his granddaughter lost her mind after Tiller killed her baby. Until we know the motivations, I'm willing to wait to condemn the shooter.
Notice, if you will, the killing of Dr. Tiller is probably wrong, but. . . he may have had a granddaughter, his hypothetical granddaughter may have become pregnant, that hypothetical granddaughter who may have become pregnant may have had a late-term abortion, she may have traveled to Wichita, she may have voluntarily gone to Dr. Tiller’s clinic where the doctor may have legally performed a legal procedure. So it’s possibly excusable to kill Dr. Tiller. There is always, “but”.
There is a fiction going around that the pro-choice and anti-abortion-at-all-costs groups are two equally extreme positions, and that rational answers exist in the middle, where everybody disapproves of abortion except when they want one for themselves or someone they care about.
There's only one set of extremists here, the one that uses language like "baby killer," " Nazi," "murderer," and "death mill," kidnaps and murders providers and clinic workers, burns and bombs clinics and drives cars into them, posts pictures of clinic workers and their families on the internet, and harasses patients on their way to get care.
Bret McAtee, a well known and popular Michigan pastor made a statement regarding Dr. Tiller’s murder:
Somehow when the end came for Dr. George “Mengle” Tiller the setting of his death was altogether appropriate. Tiller had spent his life serving as the high priest in the sanctuary of humanism for decades, bringing murder, death and torture to tens of thousands in his abortuary [sic]. In turn, when Tiller was murdered Sunday, God returned him the favor as Tiller was murdered as he stood in God’s house. The irony shouldn’t be lost on us – it seems that even God operates with an eye for an eye ethic. …
But I also know joy. Not the shallow type of joy but a deep resonating joy. I feel joy that no longer will this wicked man slay the judicially innocent. I feel joy because justice, albeit of a rough variety, was visited on someone who so thoroughly opposed a culture of life and who worked so assiduously to spread the culture of death. I know joy because the truth of Scripture that those who take up the sword shall die by the sword is seen as authoritative. I know joy because I know that no longer will Dr. Tiller be sucking out the brains of people, or torturing people with saline or dismembering people in utero. How could a sane person not feel joy at the death of a mass murderer and a terrorist?
But I also know joy. Not the shallow type of joy but a deep resonating joy. I feel joy that no longer will this wicked man slay the judicially innocent. I feel joy because justice, albeit of a rough variety, was visited on someone who so thoroughly opposed a culture of life and who worked so assiduously to spread the culture of death. I know joy because the truth of Scripture that those who take up the sword shall die by the sword is seen as authoritative. I know joy because I know that no longer will Dr. Tiller be sucking out the brains of people, or torturing people with saline or dismembering people in utero. How could a sane person not feel joy at the death of a mass murderer and a terrorist?
To their credit, some religious leaders and people strongly opposed to the work if George Tiller (which after all was legal and sanctioned by Kansas law) have acknowledged that hate speech is inexcusable. Frank Schaeffer, a long time evangelical on the Right, along with his late father, assumes responsibility and guilt:
Angry speech has become the norm in American religion from both the right and the left. Words are spoken which -- when taken seriously -- lead directly to violence by the unhinged and/or the truly committed.
When evangelicals on the right call President Obama a socialist, a racist, anti-American, an abortionist, not a real American, and, echoing the former Vice President, someone who is weakening America's defenses and making us less safe, the logical conclusion is violence. If you take these words literally you might pull the trigger to "make America safe" and/or free us from communism or to even protect us from -- what some "Christian" leaders claim -- Obama as the Antichrist. …
The same hate machine I was part of is still attacking all abortionists as "murderers." And today once again the "pro-life" leaders are busy ducking their personal responsibility for people acting on their words. The people who stir up the fringe never take responsibility. But I'd like to say on this day after a man was murdered in cold blood for performing abortions that I -- and the people I worked with in the religious right, the Republican Party, the pro-life movement and the Roman Catholic Church, all contributed to this killing by our foolish and incendiary words.
I am very sorry.
When evangelicals on the right call President Obama a socialist, a racist, anti-American, an abortionist, not a real American, and, echoing the former Vice President, someone who is weakening America's defenses and making us less safe, the logical conclusion is violence. If you take these words literally you might pull the trigger to "make America safe" and/or free us from communism or to even protect us from -- what some "Christian" leaders claim -- Obama as the Antichrist. …
The same hate machine I was part of is still attacking all abortionists as "murderers." And today once again the "pro-life" leaders are busy ducking their personal responsibility for people acting on their words. The people who stir up the fringe never take responsibility. But I'd like to say on this day after a man was murdered in cold blood for performing abortions that I -- and the people I worked with in the religious right, the Republican Party, the pro-life movement and the Roman Catholic Church, all contributed to this killing by our foolish and incendiary words.
I am very sorry.
And so am I.
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Comment by Jeff Musall
Comment by Lester Caudill
Round Politics
Both murders was a criminal act, one not more noteworthy than the other it depends on which side you are on.
Jeff we don't feel threaten we just feel sick, and a shame of the president. He goes against everything that makes this country great.
Because of the acts and words that have been spoken by the liberal congress, and press many more soldiers were killed because of it, where is your outrage for that.
Comment by Someone
Evil Pleasures
Random Musings on Life, Love and Everything
Let's Get Down To Business
When the liberals start bombing churches in retaliation for bombed clinics, then you will get a taste of the extremism that you continually dish out. If you had actually read what Jim wrote (and it is a very informative and well thought out piece), you would see that he has given logical reasons for saying why one of the murders was more noteworthy than the other.
See, no one is defending the soldier's murderer, and yet the murder of Dr. Tiller can be justified? I thought you were pro-life? I think you will find it is up to God to decide who lives and dies, not us.
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
If we want to discuss “hate”, I suggest you review “…Dr. Killer I mean Dr. Tiller”. I certainly believe that neither of the victims was “more important than” the other. Both individuals were individuals who did not “deserve” to be killed.
My point was not “noteworthy”; it was “newsworthy”. And that is the word I used.
Why won’t you comment on the hypothetical granddaughter excuse?
Comment by Morgan Bell
Science News
Deep Pencil
Business News
Movie Train
Artist Quirk
in the media i heard some speculation that Tillers murder may have been a reaction to Obamas recent changes the stem cell research and overseas aid to places performing abortion etc, the murder seemed to happen quite shortly after the outrage directed at Obama when he spoke about abortion at the Catholic university
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff
Comment by Anonymous
Gee, Morgan. It didn't take you long to shift the blame on Catholics, did it?
Jim, you are a hypocrite. If you really cared about the murder of a human being, then your position on abortion would be different.
Comment by Morgan Bell
Science News
Deep Pencil
Business News
Movie Train
Artist Quirk
i think you need to re-read what i said, Anonymous
an issue like abortion can lay dormant for a long time until it comes into the media spotlight, once it becomes a big media story (like the three examples i mentioned above involving Obama) it agitates extremists
Comment by Jeff Musall
Comment by Lester Caudill
Round Politics
Christians have already been called terrorist, gays have invaded church services without any punishment, and hardly condemned, so as long as it is going against the Christians in America any evil is fine, but when we complain, and stand up for what we believe in we are called terrorist, who want to destroy America.
Jim it's not a failure of communication it's a failure to compromise our beliefs, you believe one thing, and I believe another, I accept your right to have your opinions, do you respect my right as well?
But the radical left which comment on your blog Jim does not, do you hold their same radical views, if not Jim why don't you condemn them, or rebuke their hate for Christians Conservatives.
Jim it means the same thing, and by what and how you wrote, it means you feel Dr. Tiller's murder deserved more press than a young man serving his country which was killed because a Muslim was protesting the war.
Dr. Tiller was killed by a mental unstable person, who wanted to stop him from killing more babies. I don't condone Tiller's murder I don't support killing anyone, and I sure don't support killing babies that are ready to be born.
In my opinion, and I still have a right to it, but maybe not to much longer, because of the Obama administration. Dr. Tiller was a monster that killed babies, but his punishment will come from God not me or any other human being. His murder was wrong, as is all murders ever the killing of unborn children, and a service man in Arkansas.
Do you liberals feel the same way about Charles Manson, as you do Dr. Tiller? Jim I don't control everything posted on Orble, so I can't comment on the hypothetical granddaughter excuse, because it's an opinion of some one else, and not my own opinion, but I won't have thought of it myself. But isn't that we do hear is put forth our ideas and opinions, and others get to disagree with us?
Jim all words have consequences pro abortion speech have consequences, gay activist hate speech have consequences, just look at how Miss California was treated by Perez Hilton where was the out cry of outrage. Liberal have double standard when it comes to fairness.
The only fairness they believe in is the fairness doctrine to silence Conservative Christians from expressing their point of view, and that is anti American, and clear violation of civil rights.
Jim whatever happen to the civil rights movement, we the Christians in America are in serious need of help in protecting our rights which are being taken away, Where is the sorry good for nothing ACLU, when there is real discrimination going on.
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
I object to terrorists of all stripes, be they Christian zealots, gays invading churches services, those who would kill a doctor performing a procedure that is legal but considered immoral, those who would harass women entering or leaving an abortion clinic, tose who would burn such a clinic or set explosives, especially without regard to innocent patients or employees.
I do not equate Charles Manson or Ted Bundy or any criminal with Dr. Tiller. The doctor was acting in strict accordance with Kansas law. There are many laws with which I disagree but I have no moral excuse or defense if I kill the doctor.
As to the ACLU, that’s another story. I’ll be happy to discuss cases in which the ACLU took a position of which you would agree.
Lester, in conclusion, we are not enemies; we are opinionated people, willing to share those opinions with civility.
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff
Hell I even wrote an article supporting Gay Marriage which didn't make me any friends on the right.
Comment by Jeff Musall
stop with the woe-is-me, the lefties are pickin' on me, better buy more guns and fear everything crap...nobody says the right HAS to go away....the right is doing a better job than the left these days at making the right irrelevant...
Comment by Randy Inman
Waxing Political
Football Dogz
NCstuff
And if the Right didn't matter then Palin wouldn't be so hated. The Left fears that she will pull in people who have not voted in years if ever.
Comment by Jeff Musall
That's what the right isn't getting, the more they are rallying, for the most part, who they always had. And they are driving away the middle....