Jim Stillman
Nevar
Ralph Nader – what were you thinking?
November 7th 2008 17:13
A long, long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, back when Ralph Nader and I were both considerably younger, he was a hero. Fiercely independent, an equal opportunity gadfly to selfish, greedy corporations and individuals, on the Left and on the Right, Mr. Nader single handedly improved safety standards for United States automobiles and, was one of the good guys.
In his more recent years, he ran for President in his third party, siphoned enough Florida votes from Al Gore so as to make the of George W. Bush possible and began becoming a caricature of himself. When he, again, decided to run in 2008, he was again a “spoiler” and one whom I was concerned would cause Barack Obama’s defeat.
The other day, Mr. Nader used the charged words Uncle Tom in connection with President-Elect Obama, phrasing the term in the form of a question. To his great credit, Shepard Smith of Fox News called him on it. That Ralph Nader could be so graceless, so insensitive, so classless is, it seems a decline in his reasoning and language skills. It is time for him to retire to his rocker and shut up.
In his more recent years, he ran for President in his third party, siphoned enough Florida votes from Al Gore so as to make the of George W. Bush possible and began becoming a caricature of himself. When he, again, decided to run in 2008, he was again a “spoiler” and one whom I was concerned would cause Barack Obama’s defeat.
The other day, Mr. Nader used the charged words Uncle Tom in connection with President-Elect Obama, phrasing the term in the form of a question. To his great credit, Shepard Smith of Fox News called him on it. That Ralph Nader could be so graceless, so insensitive, so classless is, it seems a decline in his reasoning and language skills. It is time for him to retire to his rocker and shut up.
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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wiki says its like calling a black person an "Oreo" or a "house n*gger" . . . is that basically how it is used? like a racial slur against blacks who pander to whites for preferential treatment?
if so, thats really uncalled for!
Comment by Jim Stillman
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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i just think the slave imagery is in poor taste, hes trying to charactise Obama based on a racial sterotype . . . theres some assumption that Obama should feel "grateful" for being allowed in the whitehouse . . . its just dumb
like really would you say that about a white guy? i doubt it . . .
it was a very silly statement
Comment by Lester Caudill
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Comment by Janet Collins
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Now that you have both clarified it for me, I'll have to say that I too think Nader should retire to his rocker and shut up.
Comment by Two Guys Sports
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Also one other part of his comments in that clip bother me -
"He has turned his back on 100,000 poor people i this country, African American, and Latinos, and POOR whites."
Why does he only have to point out the word poor for whites? Is he saying that ALL A-A and Latinos in the country are poor? With the use of the phrase Uncle Tom as the feature of this discussion this line screams racial profiling to me.
Either way, I will never see Ralph Nader in the same light again.
Gene
Oh, and I can't believe I am saying this for the second time in like two hours now, but yay Fox News for calling him out on the comment.
Comment by Cheryl J
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Shepard Smith did a great job of not letting it go. He's right, for all the good Nader has ever done this will overshadow it all and this will be what he is remembered for. The stupid man.
I'm stunned that he was also utterly remorseless for his phrasing.
Comment by D. Armenta
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Fox's hatemongering tactics are well-known--; you all should have at done a little more research.
Fox, as well as other sensationalist media, encourages reflex (aka "kneejerk" responses at certain keywords . That reflex response picks up on the phrase "Uncle Tom" here and blocks out any other words as well as the context, and you are all too intelligent to fall for this old trick.
Let's take Nader's statement word for word: "..and we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he's going to be Uncle Sam for the people of this country or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations."
And let's examine some facts:
The giant corporations paid for Obama's campaign; four million dollars a day. The giant corporations paid for Obama's 30-minute commercial, to the tune of One Million dollars for each primetime ad. ref. : here
Obama turned down public campaign financing (McCain didn't) and raised over $600 million from corporations, which has raised some major concerns Read N.Y. Times article here
Obama voted "yes" for the corporate bailout.
NOW: With that knowledge, wouldn't YOU ask Obama the same thing, whether he's black, white, or brown??? Ralph Nader also said that we need to "hold Obama's feet to to the fire" and make sure that he follows up on what few specific promises he has made so far.
We need to stop dancing to the tune of these Fox trolls that are distracting us from the truth.
Not only did Shephard Smith start out with a snide attitude , but he (or Fox) cut off Nader's historical reference for his use of the phrase.
The "spoiler" load of horse manure I will address later, but for this issue:
If you know as much about Nader's tireless work as you say--not only as a consumer advocate in the 60s and 70s, but as a civil rights advocate and defender of the peoples' constitutional rights from 1966 to the present, I can only ask you all this:
How dare you? How can you?
Look how lesser enemies of these corps have been getting smeared--Dr. Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich..until now, in spite of its best efforts since 1966 (starting with General Motors) big business hasn't been able to find any dirt on Nader because there is none.
Now, up jumps an opportunity to tell a media-saturated population, "RALPH NADER blahblahblah PRESIDENT-ELECT OBAMA blahblahblah UNCLE TOM blahblahblah RACIST."
Think for yourself. PLEASE. The last thing we all need in these troubled times is to turn against our most loyal ally--as well as the corporate raiders' enemy #1---Ralph Nader.
Comment by Randy Inman
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Comment by D. Armenta
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What disappoints me here is that a person of Mr. Stillman's experience and education would fall for this tripe.
Comment by Jeff Musall
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With your explanation and the article in the N.Y. Times making it a little clearer how the campaign funding works, I can see your point. I had not realised there was so much corporate funding in the Obama campaign.
Political fundraising is pretty controversial over here too. Every now and then it blows up but nothing really is ever done about it. As campaigns get bigger and bigger, more and more funds are needed. And the more these corporations throw at the political parties, the more influence they have in them.
There never really is anything such as a free lunch. If this is what Ralph Nader was getting at, then I apologise for jumping to conclusions. I thought it was just one of those ill-thought out comments that seem to spray out of everyone's mouths after a long and emotional election campaign.
Comment by Cheryl J
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I, of course, do not have a thorough understanding of your political system as I am not from your country but I can see that this is an issue which you hold much passion for.
From everything I have ever read about Ralph Nader he is an intelligent man with enormous integrity who has fought tirelessly for the people.
You are right that we only saw a screen grab and that we have not heard what he said in its entirety. I also understand that many people are concerned about the Obama received his funding as they should be. Whenever corporate donations are used there is always the perception that it will make the user beholden. I certainly hope this isn't the case.
I have much respect for Nader and I certainly wasn't calling him stupid. That time it was my bad choice of wording but I do stand by my assertion that it was an incredibly poor choice of wording given that this is the first black man that will hold this position. It does have racist connotations whether or not that was the intention of the phrase. He should have said "will he be a corporate lackey?" and left the Uncle Tom phrase out altogether.
I do agree that putting it with Uncle Sam makes the statement stronger and would have been totally overlooked had it been a white person he was addressing the remark about but it wasn't. The intention of the remark most likely not racist. Do I think Nader is racist? I highly doubt it, but the statement was an incredibly poor choice of wording and it will forever leave a bad taste in some people's mouths. That was why I thought it was stupid because it WILL be the thing that sticks in people's minds. I also honestly don't think any of the newscasters from any network would have let that pass without calling him on it.
I honestly hope he hasn't completely shot himself in the foot with this. We need more people like him in the world.
We had a political party in Australia called the Democrats whose tagline was "Keeping the bastards honest". I do believe that was Nader's intention. I just wish he had thought more about how that phrase was going to sound to the millions of people would hear it.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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we dont use the expression Uncle Tom in Australia so i can only rely on what you guys say it means
is it currently and commonly used to mean "house n*gger" or isnt it?
i have never heard the term before this post
my parents quickly identified it as referring to the black slave in Huck Finn/Tom Sawyer
Comment by Jim Stillman
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The only thing I was trying to express was my disdain for the use by Ralph Nader of an expression that is extremely distasteful to blacks in this country. And while I objected to the term “Uncle Tom” which is offensive to others, I feel Mr. Nader was wrong in not modifying his words, not his concerns or intent.
Ralph Nader has been, overall and over the years, a positive force in this country, and if I failed to make that opinion clear, I regret it.
Comment by Janet Collins
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Comment by D. Armenta
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Knowing as much about the man as I do, I doubt this will stop him. He's gone through much worse in the past, what with death threats to himself, his sisters and mother, and being harassed and tailed by various corporations.
He has sued his many attackers (including, ahem, the Democratic party and the election commission) for physically blocking him from the 2004 debates--even when he had an official invite and a seat in a news channel's area) and won; the proceeds from those suits have gone to fund more Congress watchdog groups.
They want him out of the picture. Can you see why, now?
Morgan-the phrase "Uncle Tom" means "a traitor to one's group". It was taken from the controversial book by Harriet Beecher Stowe, "Uncle Tom's Cabin."
In the book, Uncle Tom was interested only in preserving his own comforts and refused to help or get involved with fellow slaves trying to escape.
I know why Nader didn't take back that statement: because it wasn't used as a racial slur. Taking it back would mean that it was a slur.
The only racists in this scenario are Fox News and that mental midget Shephard Smith; they were the ones who mentioned race, not Nader.
If you go back and watch again, Nader isn't even aware that Shephard is trying to insinuate racism at first; he was going over the many problems that Obama will face. It was Smith who kept coming back to it, till Nader called him on it. Also note how he started to say "Historically, that term--" before his mike was cut.
-And finally, for those diehard types who insist that Ralph Nader made a racist remark, ask yourself this: was Nader only addressing Obama's black half? I mean, with Obama being half white-- if Nader wanted to insult the man he should have made some reference to "crackers" too.
By the way, Nader himself is Middle Eastern in heritage; both of his parents were Christian Arabs who immigrated here from Lebanon.
-And watch Nader speaking . Do you see any sign of dementia or senility there? His mind is sharper than ever and he's still watchdogging our government for US, not that some of us deserve it.
Comment by Cheryl J
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You've made some really interesting points DA and in context I'm certain it was not meant as a racial slur, however I do think he must have known that many people would find that phrase insulting, particularly African-Americans. So although using it is the historical sense it makes sense due to its original meaning (I did study the book and the changes of meaning a very long time ago) it was only ever going to be picked up in the hysterical sense, that of race. And for that I wish he had chosen his words more carefully. Sometimes it is not the intention of the words that people remember it's the perceived intention.
Thanks for your information, it's been very enlightening.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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so its basically a racial stereotype of a black male servant
i think he picked his words very poorly
if you say people commonly refer to white politicians as "Uncle Tom" in the USA when they choose Big Black Business over poor white community services then i will have to take your word for it, but i find it hard to believe Nader wasnt aware of the racial connotations
im not saying he is a racist, im saying he chose a racially insensitive expression for the purposes of making his soundbyte more colourful (pardon the pun)
it isnt just to "turn on ones own" if it is only used in situations where "ones own" are exclusively the less powerful minority, which in the USA is still generally coloured people
i dont think it detracts from any of the achievements Nader has made in his life, and i dont think it defines his character on the whole
but if i was a young black person in a poor neighbourhood in the USA and heard that i would consider it a personal insult to my race
Comment by Janet Collins
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In other words, their needs will be put second. In that way, Nader is actually saying Obama has betrayed them.
Maybe I am wrong but I know Nader has always been very critical of corporate influence in government affairs.
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Comment by D. Armenta
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Ms. Collins, your assessment is correct.
Morgan, I hope that's not a wikipedia definition; it's incorrect.
In the book, Uncle Tom was interested only in preserving his own comforts and refused to help or get involved with fellow slaves trying to escape.
Characters representing groups of people in a book.
Don't look for evil where there is none.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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ok once and for all, without mentioning Ralph Nader, does the expession "Uncle Tom" refer to a black slave or servant?
was Uncle Tom in "Uncle Toms Cabin" a black slave?
i have not read the book so i do not know, the question is genuine not rhetorical
is "Uncle Tom" a cultural reference to a black slave or isnt it?
im very confused that you and Jim seem to disagree about the meaning of the term . . . so straight answer please, when people say "Uncle Tom" is it in reference to a black slave?
Comment by Cheryl J
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The book was written by an abolitionist who wrote the book to highlight the evils of slavery. The character of "Uncle Tom" in the book was a black house slave. In the book his character (at that time in history) was quite a sympathetic one. Later, the book was made into stage shows and the character of Uncle Tom was ever changing and did not paint him at all in a good light.
At first his character was seen just seen as weak man but by the time of Malcolm X it became synonymous with someone who betrays their own race and therefore became an incredibly offensive insult to African-Americans which still remains today although this was never the intention of the character by the author. Well at least this was what we were taught when learning the history of the book.
If you google Harriet Beecher Stowe or Uncle Tom's Cabin you can actually download the book from numerous sources free of charge.
Comment by Jeff Musall
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Now I know he was about to explain his historical reference of the term before they cut him off, but it doesn't matter the historical reference. What people know is the cultural history of the term, "Uncle Tom." In American culture it has long been considered a term referring to a black man who will do anything to stay in good standing with "the white man" including betray his own people.
Now my putting that together with his other statement may have been a bit of a stretch, but it is how many people are going to take it.
I too believe it was a very badly chosen term to use, regardless of how he meant it. There were so many other and better ways that he could have gotten that point across without having to use those two words that 80% or more of the country would take as the derogatory definition.
I STILL like his stances on many issues, and still think the work he does needs to be done. I do however agree with Jeff. It is time for him to do it in a different way. Living in a state that doesn't even allow a third party on the ballot, or even a write-in option - I feel his first priority should be to continue on making it possible for candidates other than Republican and Democrat to be on the ballot in the entire country. Make it easier for the next guy that comes along to make a bit more headway when they try to do what he has been trying to do all along.
Gene
Comment by D. Armenta
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Jeff M.-
Ralph Nader's many organisations are well known--Citizen Watch comes to mind--but he doesn't portray himself as leader (and there goes that whole "ego" argument, folks).
Nader is an expert organizer-he gets people together for a common cause, trains the leaders in the group, then delegates the leadership and moves on to do his main work, which is protect constitutional rights and defend the consumer. He is not interested in accruing fame.
A few groups Nader has started (there are far too many to list here):
Center for study of responsive law (Wash., D.C.)-Since 1969, the Center has produced innumerable reports on wide-ranging subjects such as the Interstate Commerce Commission, food safety, pensions, corporate welfare, and government procurement.
[All the others are pretty much self-explanatory]:
Aviation Consumer Action Project
Center for Auto Safety
Clean Water Action Project
Disability Rights Center
Pension Rights Center
Freedom of Information Clearinghouse
Congressional Accountability Project
-There are lots more; this is just a sample.
Jeff, if you do a little research you will see that Nader is a feared and hated man in the corporate world, which has many ties (unfortunately) with both political parties. Since all mainstream media in the U.S. is owned/funded by 3 corporations, you aren't going to see any kudos for Ralph on Fox News, CNN, etc.
Comment by D. Armenta
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You just addressed Mr. Stillman's accusation of Nader being a "spoiler". Nader doesn't run every election to win. Nader runs every election to try and break up the "duocracy" of the Dems and Repubs., and to bring public awareness up to the fact that these two parties have made ways for themselves to edge any other parties out. If you want further proof of this, search Youtube for Nader/Ron Paul working together for third party representation (2008 election)--despite many smaller differences of opinion.
If you are into statistics, Gene (being a sports fan) try this statistical equation: enter the numbers from the 2004 election (Dem votes, Repub votes, Third party votes) from the state of Florida. Don't forget to include exit poll numbers as well as other pertinent factors (vote count process, third party voters' "other" choice, the "throwing out" of thousands of votes, Miami mayor's cut-and-run after questions were raised, etc,)
You will find that it was --and always has been--statistically impossible for Ralph Nader to "spoil" that election and "enable Bush to become president, or "spoil" any other election in which he runs, unless he runs as a Dem or Repub.--and that will never be allowed by either party.
"
Comment by D. Armenta
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Those of Mr. Stillman's generation, and to a lesser extent those of my generation (in their 40s) grew up trusting television news stations to deliver the truth impartially--and they did.
Those days are gone.
Now, with all U.S. media outlets owned or controlled by 3 corporations (who are also heavily involved with members of our Congress and financed P.E. Obama's campaign) the onus is on us to discover the truth about what's going on in our government, in the Middle East, and in all of our foreign relations.
Sorry--but we're going to have to do our homework now to get the facts. That's just the way it is. That's why I set up the L.A.M.P. site--to pool our resources worldwide for trusted websites for real news.
It's time to think for ourselves.
Comment by Jeff Musall
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Did you do the statistics equation for the 2004 election I referenced? I'm thinking not--especially since Nader got more votes in the 2008 election than he did in the 2004, yet miraculously enough McCain isn't the new president. If you go by Fox et. al's criteria, that completely shoots down the 2004 election "spoiler" load of crap.
Did you check the start dates on those organizations, Jeff? Or the last time Nader was active in them?
If so, please cite me some reliable references saying that Nader has been sitting on his ass between elections.
If not, I can't do any more for you or anyone else here than give reliable resources to back up my statements.
If you have convinced yourself that Nader is an evil, bitter old man who's trying to spoil every election (yeah, he graduated magna cum laude in 1955, with a degree in government and economics from Princeton--before moving on to Harvard Law school and graduating with honors--- but maybe he data-dumped all that info. Maybe you and Fox news have figured out a detail he missed) ... after all of the resources I have listed here and elsewhere, so be it.
He'll keep defending your constitutional rights anyway, and I'll keep supporting him.
Comment by D. Armenta
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Comment by Jeff Melton
The above is what I consider a measured and appropriate criticism of what Nader said. In contrast to that, the author of this blog ironically uses hateful, discriminatory language, claiming without evidence that there has been a decline in Nader's reasoning and language skills and telling him to "retire to his rocker and shut up." So, in the name of criticizing him for using inflammatory language, you think it's okay to promote negative stereotypes of the elderly? Speaking of someone being on another planet!
Comment by D. Armenta
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Your first observation is covered extensively in the previous comments.
Your second observation is an excellent point.
Comment by Jim Stillman
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Jeff and DA, I was not disparaging the elderly in general. I, personally, am older than dirt. I was intemperate, however.
Comment by D. Armenta
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I'm just really concerned that we know who our friends are right now; Nader is, as he always has been. I can't stand to see people buying into the corporate smear against him.
..Plus, I've got maybe a smidge of curmudgeon in myself as well...; D
Comment by Jim Stillman
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Comment by D. Armenta
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It's getting pretty bad when you're shocked at civility...
Thank you.