SL has made a suggestion that I will honor.
August 9th 2008 18:15
It seems that she has posted comments about Senator Obama’s remarks to a child as to why he wanted to be President.
From here, SL went on about the “good old days” of discrimination against Blacks, the Civil War and slavery and, for good measure, President Clinton’s personal sexual conduct.
I posted a comment to her article and received a suggestion
Jim, I got bored with your liberal dreck by the second paragraph (as usual). If you don't like what I write, don't read it. I know it must be hard for you to understand, but honestly, liberal garbage bores me to tears. Play with it on your own blog. O.K.?
So I am posting here the substance of my position with regard to SL’s post (on my own blog) and then making a suggestion of my own – to those who agree with me and to those who do not.
My comment to SL was:
Although you revel in not reading my “liberal dreck”, probably in the belief that exposure to contrary opinions may cause headaches and, conceivably, awareness that other people may have views worth consideration, I find myself drawn to your posts for two reasons. First, while the preponderance of your opinions is shallow, there are some points you offer that give me pause. Second, and most important, your blog is like a horrible accident on the side of the highway. One finds it impossible to drive by without slowing and looking – even if the sight of the gore is shocking and disturbing.
In taking Senator Obama’s statements out of context and spinning them through the Fox prism, you give a totally false impression. While this is likely intentional and should be ignored, like the accident on the highway, I have to make a comment.
You may not like it, but America is not what it used to be. Part of the blame is at the door of the Republican administrations and Republican dominated Congress, but some is the fault of every one of us, collectively. Want some examples?
For the first time in American history, the United States invaded a sovereign country without that nation constituting an immediate threat. It has now been established to nearly everyone’s satisfaction that this is the case. Worse, President Bush (43)’s purpose to get rid of Saddam was, in the opinion of his father, counterproductive; President Bush (41) recognized that the Iraqi dictator needed to be there to counter the threat from Iran.
We have destroyed our relationships with foreign allies with whom we must cooperate to fight terrorism, international crimes, the international drug operations and the trafficking of women and children.
Another example is the wholesale evaporation of personal rights and the trashing of the Constitution by this Administration: warrantless wire taps and surveillance, imprisonment of our own citizens without Judicial review, etc.
More? The privatization of former government services, less safety in the air, more danger in the food we eat, all because Government is bad.
Yes, I agree with Senator Obama that we have slipped. And I also agree with him that our glory and strengths can be restored.
Now here is my suggestion. I have invited Randy Inman, a man whose views are decidedly to the right of my own, to contribute to this blog; he has accepted and his postings have been helpful, cogent and illuminating. I extend that same invitation to one and all, especially those who may disagree with my opinions. The only condition is that positions be urged without rancor, with civility and with respect.
SL won’t put up with that kind of discourse.
Barack Obama has done it again, folks. Surprise, surprise... When asked by a seven year old child why he wanted to be president, he said it was because he thought that America wasn't as good as it "used to be." Makes you wonder which "good old days" he meant, doesn't it?
From here, SL went on about the “good old days” of discrimination against Blacks, the Civil War and slavery and, for good measure, President Clinton’s personal sexual conduct.
I posted a comment to her article and received a suggestion
Jim, I got bored with your liberal dreck by the second paragraph (as usual). If you don't like what I write, don't read it. I know it must be hard for you to understand, but honestly, liberal garbage bores me to tears. Play with it on your own blog. O.K.?
So I am posting here the substance of my position with regard to SL’s post (on my own blog) and then making a suggestion of my own – to those who agree with me and to those who do not.
My comment to SL was:
Although you revel in not reading my “liberal dreck”, probably in the belief that exposure to contrary opinions may cause headaches and, conceivably, awareness that other people may have views worth consideration, I find myself drawn to your posts for two reasons. First, while the preponderance of your opinions is shallow, there are some points you offer that give me pause. Second, and most important, your blog is like a horrible accident on the side of the highway. One finds it impossible to drive by without slowing and looking – even if the sight of the gore is shocking and disturbing.
In taking Senator Obama’s statements out of context and spinning them through the Fox prism, you give a totally false impression. While this is likely intentional and should be ignored, like the accident on the highway, I have to make a comment.
You may not like it, but America is not what it used to be. Part of the blame is at the door of the Republican administrations and Republican dominated Congress, but some is the fault of every one of us, collectively. Want some examples?
For the first time in American history, the United States invaded a sovereign country without that nation constituting an immediate threat. It has now been established to nearly everyone’s satisfaction that this is the case. Worse, President Bush (43)’s purpose to get rid of Saddam was, in the opinion of his father, counterproductive; President Bush (41) recognized that the Iraqi dictator needed to be there to counter the threat from Iran.
We have destroyed our relationships with foreign allies with whom we must cooperate to fight terrorism, international crimes, the international drug operations and the trafficking of women and children.
Another example is the wholesale evaporation of personal rights and the trashing of the Constitution by this Administration: warrantless wire taps and surveillance, imprisonment of our own citizens without Judicial review, etc.
More? The privatization of former government services, less safety in the air, more danger in the food we eat, all because Government is bad.
Yes, I agree with Senator Obama that we have slipped. And I also agree with him that our glory and strengths can be restored.
Now here is my suggestion. I have invited Randy Inman, a man whose views are decidedly to the right of my own, to contribute to this blog; he has accepted and his postings have been helpful, cogent and illuminating. I extend that same invitation to one and all, especially those who may disagree with my opinions. The only condition is that positions be urged without rancor, with civility and with respect.
SL won’t put up with that kind of discourse.
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Comment by Randy Inman
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Comment by Edward 4
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I took up your case in my most recent post, check it out if you feel so inclined.
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Comment by Cheryl J
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Of course it's nice to have people agree with you but it's also good to have your views challenged. It gives you an opportunity to see how things are rarely black or white and you may learn something from others.
Good on you Jim for opening up your blog to views that don't necessarily conform to your own.
A pond that is not fed by new waters is stagnant.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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can i just ask you about his little sentence (genuinely interested in the answer)
how does Iraq/Afghanistan differ from Vietnam or any other foreign conflicts?
is it a legal matter of how the decisions were made or is it how the "threat" is assessed, or perhaps the definition of "invasion"
Comment by Jeff Musall
Secular Humanity
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
In the past, the United States was guilty of starting a war, I’m ashamed to admit. The Spanish-American War was instigated by the Hearst newspapers and our incursions into Grenada and Panama were not really justified.
On December 7, 1941, we were attacked by Japan at Pearl Harbor. We did not declare war on Germany until several days after its Declaration of War on us. There is no question that we had supported the allies against Germany but no one seriously suggests now that the liberation of Europe was based on faulty intelligence or a lack of presidential honesty.
The Korean War was, technically, a United Nations operation, to which we certainly participated. In that case, South Korea, with whom we had a treaty, was invaded by foreign troops.
The Vietnam War is an historical event where I am likely in error. We operated on the then belief that the “domino theory” made it necessary to counter any advance of Communism. This War was based on a false claim and excuse, that we were attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. This War divided the country and still has had an effect on our politics. At the end, it turned out that the Bad Guys won, and the world really didn’t end.
In the case of Iraq, we were not threatened by that country. We were attacked, on September 11th, by an organization protected by and sheltered by Afghanistan comprised for the most part of nationals of Saudi Arabia. We had every legal and moral right to get rid of al Qaida and the Taliban in Afghanistan – and we should have. But Iraq?
It was in our national interest to leave Iraq alone and have Saddam remain in power. George Bust the Elder recognized that a viable, but weakened, Saddam would be a counter to the more dangerous and wealthy Iran. For years, we supported Saddam on that theory, even to the extent of supplying him with the WMD that he used on the Kurds.
We are now left with an unstable Iraqi government, a stronger Iran, a revitalized Taliban in Afghanistan. Meanwhile, what country controls oil prices, uses its vast assets to support terrorist groups?
Our buddies the Saudi.
Comment by Randy Inman
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The first "Advisors" sent to Vietnam were sent to try to bail out our friends the French.
Comment by Jim Stillman
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Comment by Randy Inman
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And you were correct about trying to stop the commies but France got whipped there first and asked us for help.
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Comment by RubySoho
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The Stalinist and Castro models, whilst ostensibly based on the works of Marx, actually fly in the face of true Communism in that the workers, who Marx said must eventually control the mode of production, were denied their 'rightful' status by the leaders who were unwilling to relinquish power.
I don't know how realistic Marixism is nor do I particularly advocate it. I do think it's important that people know what it actually is before they dismiss it.
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Comment by Morgan Bell
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thanks for the detailed response
its so hard to decipher what our leaders actually know when they make decisions about war . . . i often wonder if there has ever been a real threat of communism to the USA, it seemed to be the boogey-man for some time (and even today) but seems like something that comes from internal uprising rather than another country . . . i know Bush knows there were no WMD in Iraq now, and perhaps i give Bush too much credit, but at the time that Iraq was refusing to let UN weapons inspectors into their facilities i wonder if he really did consider it a threat?
still doesnt explain why US troops have stayed so long or destroyed so much or why they dont invade every nuclear nation?
Comment by DeAnne
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