Jim Stillman
Nevar
The Ten Commandments, school prayer and the end of civilization. Part II
August 7th 2007 17:00
In the first part of this post, I attempted to demonstrate that the public, official recitation of prayer by school children had inherent problems and doubtful efficacy. I also tried to show that the reluctance of honorable people to embrace such recitals was not motivated by hatred of Christians, the majority faith in this country, but rather that, to many, even the form and language of the prayer was offensive and, in some instances, forbidden.
In addition to the reinstitution of public prayer, my fellow poster on this site, S.L. Bradish, has complained that we “libs” have forbidden the governmental display of the Ten Commandments which are said to be the cornerstone, the very pillars of our system of law, our very freedoms. Often, the term, “libs” is combined with “secular” to show that liberals or democrats cannot also be devout.
I can speak only for myself.
The Constitution prohibits the federal government or that of any state from passing any
As I pointed out previously, the issue starts with whose prayer, which Commandments. Which version should be the version “approved” by the state?
Since the language is said to come from Exodus and Deuteronomy in the Hebrew Scriptures, what is its importance and significance to Jews?
The Commandments, which can be counted in Exodus as being 17 in number and, in the second Book, 21, are in Jewish orthodox belief equal in importance to 613 total commandments in the Bible. If one wishes to be technical, of the 613 Commandments, the penalty for violation is often death; only one commandment is associated with a specific reward for obedience.
Under the conventional grouping and numbering by most Jews, Anglican and Protestants, the Fifth Commandment states,
Actually, later Rabbis have interpreted that passage as a direction to support the elderly and infirm, the cornerstone of the modern social welfare programs!
There are a number of ways to number and combine the Ten Commandments. In any event, I would urge that there are only a few of the Commandments that are consistent with our civil law; the rest are totally inappropriate in a pluralistic society.
Let us see what they are.
The First and Second Commandments, according to the accepted numbering of most Judeo-Christian faiths, come from Exodus:
Can there be anyone who could rationally suggest that this passage does not create an “establishment of religion”? The Deity is identified as the God of the Hebrews and insists on exclusivity, threatening generations of yet unborn children with punishment for their long passed ancestors’ violation of that exclusivity.
Jewish and Christian interpretations of these clauses are vastly different. To a Jew, a painting of God is forbidden; Christian art is replete with statutes and paintings of God, Jesus, and icons which may constitute “idols”. I’ll leave that to theologians; I am not qualified.
The Third Commandment is, as many, a noble direction, but hardly the basis for civil law:
The next Commandments deal with maintaining the Sabbath and giving honor to one’s parents, the second of which has already been discussed. As to the Sabbath, whose shall we choose? Jews and some Christians treat Saturday as the Sabbath, traditional Christians consider Sunday the correct day and many Muslims have chosen Friday. We have a long and checkered and continuing history in this country regarding governmental enforcement of the Christian day of rest. Do we really want to revisit that arena? Should Jewish-owned businesses be compelled by law to close on Sunday and compelled by faith to close the previous day?
The next four Commandments, prohibiting murder, adultery, stealing, and swearing falsely, committing perjury, have been made a part of civil law, with some modifications. These are all worthwhile directions; will placing them on a monument reduce the number of violations? Will a potential thief be swayed by the moral imperative?
The final Commandments come from this passage:
Coveting may be a moral flaw, but a crime?
We may, if we choose, place all of society’s failings on a lack of faith. I choose to fault a failure on the part of parents to supervise and show by example, an awarding of star status to the spoiled, undisciplined role models presented by the entertainment industry to our children, the publicizing of out-of-wedlock births as normal and appropriate, the treating of hip-hop rap culture and music as a valid art form and the list can go on and on.
Placing a monument at government expense won’t cut it.
And that’s even if we can decide on what goes on the monument!
In addition to the reinstitution of public prayer, my fellow poster on this site, S.L. Bradish, has complained that we “libs” have forbidden the governmental display of the Ten Commandments which are said to be the cornerstone, the very pillars of our system of law, our very freedoms. Often, the term, “libs” is combined with “secular” to show that liberals or democrats cannot also be devout.
I can speak only for myself.
The Constitution prohibits the federal government or that of any state from passing any
“law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
The first part of the quoted phrase comes into play in the school prayer issues and those involving the Commandments.As I pointed out previously, the issue starts with whose prayer, which Commandments. Which version should be the version “approved” by the state?
Since the language is said to come from Exodus and Deuteronomy in the Hebrew Scriptures, what is its importance and significance to Jews?
The Commandments, which can be counted in Exodus as being 17 in number and, in the second Book, 21, are in Jewish orthodox belief equal in importance to 613 total commandments in the Bible. If one wishes to be technical, of the 613 Commandments, the penalty for violation is often death; only one commandment is associated with a specific reward for obedience.
Under the conventional grouping and numbering by most Jews, Anglican and Protestants, the Fifth Commandment states,
“Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, so that your days may be long and that it may go well with you in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.”
Actually, later Rabbis have interpreted that passage as a direction to support the elderly and infirm, the cornerstone of the modern social welfare programs!
There are a number of ways to number and combine the Ten Commandments. In any event, I would urge that there are only a few of the Commandments that are consistent with our civil law; the rest are totally inappropriate in a pluralistic society.
Let us see what they are.
The First and Second Commandments, according to the accepted numbering of most Judeo-Christian faiths, come from Exodus:
“I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me, but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
Can there be anyone who could rationally suggest that this passage does not create an “establishment of religion”? The Deity is identified as the God of the Hebrews and insists on exclusivity, threatening generations of yet unborn children with punishment for their long passed ancestors’ violation of that exclusivity.
Jewish and Christian interpretations of these clauses are vastly different. To a Jew, a painting of God is forbidden; Christian art is replete with statutes and paintings of God, Jesus, and icons which may constitute “idols”. I’ll leave that to theologians; I am not qualified.
The Third Commandment is, as many, a noble direction, but hardly the basis for civil law:
“You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.”
Do we really want to have a police officer arrest a person who has uttered an unfortunate phrase upon striking his thumb with a hammer? Or how about Rhett’s parting words to Ms O’Hara?The next Commandments deal with maintaining the Sabbath and giving honor to one’s parents, the second of which has already been discussed. As to the Sabbath, whose shall we choose? Jews and some Christians treat Saturday as the Sabbath, traditional Christians consider Sunday the correct day and many Muslims have chosen Friday. We have a long and checkered and continuing history in this country regarding governmental enforcement of the Christian day of rest. Do we really want to revisit that arena? Should Jewish-owned businesses be compelled by law to close on Sunday and compelled by faith to close the previous day?
The next four Commandments, prohibiting murder, adultery, stealing, and swearing falsely, committing perjury, have been made a part of civil law, with some modifications. These are all worthwhile directions; will placing them on a monument reduce the number of violations? Will a potential thief be swayed by the moral imperative?
The final Commandments come from this passage:
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”
Our legal and penal system punishes acts, not thoughts. Skipping over the feminists’ objection to the characterization of a “wife” as property, the equivalent of an “ox or donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor”, isn’t the “coveting” of the neighbor’s things – other than the wife – the rationale of our economy? My kid “covets” the I-Pod of his friend; as a good American am I not expected to buy him one, too? Hasn’t the president spoken of our obligation to shop and bolster the economy? Coveting may be a moral flaw, but a crime?
We may, if we choose, place all of society’s failings on a lack of faith. I choose to fault a failure on the part of parents to supervise and show by example, an awarding of star status to the spoiled, undisciplined role models presented by the entertainment industry to our children, the publicizing of out-of-wedlock births as normal and appropriate, the treating of hip-hop rap culture and music as a valid art form and the list can go on and on.
Placing a monument at government expense won’t cut it.
And that’s even if we can decide on what goes on the monument!
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Comment by S.L. Bradish
Some people seem so hung up on the idea that government can't single out any religion and force people to subscribe to it, they forget the point about "prohibiting free exercise thereof." Sort of makes it obvious that the state can't forbid prayer anytime someone wants to pray, doesn't it? It's the little detail that's being honored in Calif. where the Muslim students are having special foot baths and prayer rooms, don't you think? Isn't the free exercize of religion also to allow the practice of other faiths as well? It's a pretty good bet that the Founding Fathers didn't have in mind all religions being removed from public places EXCEPT Islam.
Comment by Jim Stillman
Political Certainty
Religious symbols and artifacts are more than mere "decorations". If you really felt that this was the same as a watercolor of a beach, I hardly think you would feel so strongly.
I do not hold with special facilities for Muslims, any more than I would expect public schools to install Mikvahs, the ritual bath for orthodox Jews. On the other hand, I do not feel one excess to justify others.
Comment by Paul Angelo
What is so wrong with private prayer? Why is it so important to have your government validate your religion by hanging symbols or conducting public prayers and ceremonies? It all seems very shallow to me and is antithetical to Jesus' teachings in my opinion.
Lastly, stop claiming that muslims are given preference and that islam is on the good end of a double standard--its just ridiculous and you know it. Islam has been widely demonized in this country, and many who don't don't necessarily buy into the demonization are still at least a little distrusting of muslims. You are taking isolated incidents of accomodations for muslims and exagerrating it way out of proportion to support your absurd idea thatChristianity is under assault.
Comment by S.L. Bradish
Comment by Winston
Small Thoughts on Big Questions
As Jim has so rightly pointed out, the first 4 commandments are completely inappropriate to be displayed in any place of law. They have nothing to do with common, societal law at all, and they make up nearly half the document! Shall we just display "The Six Commandments" then? Why bother? There is not an original thought among them. Every point therein was made in earlier codified laws such as the Code of Hammurabi. If the laws themselves are so breathtakingly brilliant, why is no one clamoring to hang the older versions that gave rise to the Ten Commandments in our courthouses? It is not the desire to showcase the historical foundation of our laws that drives people to demand that the Commandments be hung on government property; that demand exists because there are great factions of people who believe that their religion should occupy an eminent spot in society. Which is precisely what the Constitution guards against.
If the Ten Commandments are to be hung up in the courts, they should be hung alongside every other influential codified set of laws through history. Since not many Ten Commandments supporters are in favor of that, it is far better to simply leave the Commandments where they belong: in the churches, temples, synagogues and homes of the faithful. The rest of us are fully capable of living law-abiding, ethical lives without having the simplistic laws of a barbarous deity hung in every corner.
As you've said Jim, societal ills have long existed. The forms may have changed over the years, but the basic themes are the same. The problems of today have corollaries with the problems of a century ago, and on back through the ages. The Ten Commandments have not impacted that in any meaningful way. All those believing that flying them high for all to see will work some magic on the land to banish immorality and so forth....well, what can you say about such cute, hopeful optimism?